How Organic Alignment to Customer Behavior Leads to Profit for B2C Companies

Speaker 1: Welcome to Page One Or Bust, your ultimate guide to getting on page one of search engines. In this episode, a CEO and Director of E- commerce shared the secrets behind their go- to- market success and how they grew sales from zero to$ 2 million in 18 short months. You'll hear from Daniel Dietz and Bryan Jurus, the CEO and Director of E- Commerce at Longevity Labs in the U. S., as they share how their team mastered aligning content to their customer and generated conversions. But before we get into it, here's a brief word from today's sponsor. Page One Or Bust is brought to you by DemandJump. Get insights, drive outcomes with DemandJump. Get started creating content that ranks at demandjump. com today. And now, here are your co- host Christopher Day and Ryan Brock.

Christopher Day: Welcome back to Page One Or Bust. This is your co- host Christopher Day, the CEO of DemandJump. As always, I'm joined by my co- host Ryan Brock, the Chief Content Officer at DemandJump. How you doing today, Ryan?

Ryan Brock: Yo. Doing well.

Christopher Day: I'm so excited about today's show. We're joined by two very special guests, Daniel Dietz, who goes by Danny. He gave me permission to call him Danny in the show. And Bryan Jurus. Danny and Bryan, how you doing today?

Danny Dietz: Wonderful. Thank you for having us. We're really excited. It's a unique business challenge we've got here.

Ryan Brock: Yeah. Yeah, it sounds like it. We like to do this thing where one of us comes in smart and one of us comes in less smart, so that I can be the audience, stand in and be shocked by what I hear you guys say. But the little I know about your situation and your SEO battle has got me really excited to learn more about what you guys have been through.

Christopher Day: Absolutely. We're going to dive deep into their winning strategy and hearing from the unique perspective of, not only a category leader, but being the category creator, which I think is really interesting. A lot of companies are being disruptive in their individual fields, so I think that's going to be interesting for our listeners.

Ryan Brock: And it is the hardest thing in the world to do SEO right when you're the one inventing what you do.

Christopher Day: Yup.

Ryan Brock: It's the... I've been there, and so mad respect for anyone who's done it well.

Christopher Day: So true. So, let's get started. Danny, tell us high level about your journey, how you came to Longevity Labs to be the CEO. And Bryan, we want to hear about your journey. So, take it away, Danny.

Danny Dietz: Absolutely. So, I am a recovering attorney by trade. After a series of a short couple of years practicing law, I realized all I was pushing across the table was a stack of paperwork. And that's not always the most satisfying thing to go home and realize that all you really did is stored on a little data drive and filed in some court. And so, I took a deep dive into creating things. Worked a little bit in the real estate realm, but primarily surrounding economic and transit- oriented development projects. And that sent me on a wild journey through the startup worlds on all things strange and new. I dove in, worked pretty heavily in the cannabis marketplace for a while, very greenfield space. Worked in the brewing space for a while. Through those two, I became passionate about green technologies, about health, about natural healing, which led me to an introduction to a very unique group of scientists out of Graz, Austria, which is the second- largest city in Austria. There was a cell scientist named Frank Madeo out of the University of Graz Austria, who had found that this unique polyamine, it's a molecule, it's a unique subset of molecules, but it was found in very high amounts in semen, breast milk, in babies. After applying it to human cells and doing a significant amount of research on diets, it was discovered that not only is it in those things, it's in every living tissue, and it declines with age in living tissues. And as a result, they realized that, " Huh. If this has this impact conversely in a correlative level, what if we could create this and put it into some type of intervention or dietary supplement to increase it for those who aren't naturally eating these high, organic, polyamine- rich foods on a regular basis?"

Ryan Brock: You mean people don't eat wheat germ every day everywhere? Because that's my routine.

Danny Dietz: What we discovered is if we stuck to this very specific eastern European wheat germ and treated it through a long and complex process with no solvents... We couldn't burn it off. We couldn't use acids or else it would also deplete. So, we had to use a very natural organic process, but we were able to isolate it in high amounts through an eastern European wheat germ. And a group of business consultants licensed this technology from this professor and started the company Longevity Labs, with the intent of bringing these highly nutritious, very specific compounds to the market to supplement our diets to presumably extend life and health span. I jumped into the fray very early on to establish the North American branch of this company. We've become very closely partnered. We're a subsidiary. We work very closely together. And it was a remarkably unique experience because not only is this thing called spermidine, which is confusing sometimes...

Ryan Brock: Killer name. It's great.

Ryan Brock: It's great.

Danny Dietz: ...Really

Danny Dietz: unique from a marketing standpoint, but not only that, it's backed by this litany of science coming out of very pedigreed institutions showing its direct association with improvement in life and health span. And nobody was talking about it. Not even the research communities in the United States were talking about it. This was very isolated in Europe. And so, inaudible presented with a very unique business challenge of how do we bring a product to market that has an ingredient that nobody's heard of, nobody cares about, and sounds kind of disgusting? And it was a remarkable, unique business challenge, but what we realized it was also green space.

Christopher Day: Bryan, how'd you come about? How did you meet Danny? Or Danny, how'd you meet Bryan? And how'd you arrive at the illustrious job of being the e- commerce manager?

Bryan Jurus: As Danny mentioned, I got a phone call from a good friend of mine. We were from the same town originally, and he said, have you heard of spermidine before? And so, I did what everyone would do, jumped on Google, and there's nothing there. And so, yeah. I started to get excited as a marketer because very rarely do you come across a completely clean slate project. Right? There's nothing here. The name is weird enough that it's going to present a challenge. And so, then, yeah. I said, " Yeah. I'll give this thing a try." I came out of the startup world and then I went to work for a kind of big business for a couple years, and this kind of seemed like, again, an opportunity of a lifetime and how often do you get to start with a product that no one's ever heard of in the U. S.? And on top of that, when we entered the space, there was not a single competitor. Right? And I remember in our early meetings as we wanted to decide the vendors that we were going to work with, trying to explain to them that we don't have a single competitor, no one could wrap their head around... Because everyone wants to index. It's all about indexing. And Danny and I, we were constantly explaining that, " No, we have to make this market. This is a ground up idea. No one's heard of this." And look at this a year and a half later, and all of a sudden we have some of kind of the major thinkers in the U. S. that are starting to discuss spermidine and its importance to longevity and health.

Christopher Day: That's a perfect segue then into the meat of the show here and talking about the kind of the pain and the old way of doing things. Right? And so, many B2C companies have historically just relied on pure paid efforts. Right? And that used to work much better than it does today as a pure strategy. And so, you show up. Spermidine... And by the way, I apologize. I think I was mispronouncing it earlier, spermidine. So, it's spermidine.

Danny Dietz: Goes both ways.

Christopher Day: And so, you don't see it anywhere. And so, talk to us a little bit and we'll just go free flow from here on out. So, whoever wants to answer the questions, we'll just have at it. And I'd also love the perspective that Danny's going to bring from the CEO perspective, and that, Bryan, you're going to bring from the operator, the executioner perspective. But maybe, many B2C companies think that their brand's the most important thing, and they forget to think about... What's my target market, my target buyer? What are they actually thinking about? What are they searching for? What's their pain... The questions they're asking... Let's start off and just lay the foundation with the old way of doing things. Right? And how you thought about it, and when did SEO become on your radar as something critical that we need to think differently about?

Ryan Brock: Especially because those vendors probably did say, " Okay. If you don't have competitors, then your competitors are just any supplements out there that might come from dubious places in the scientific world. Or they might be great. Or we don't know." Right? So, I'd imagine you're first having to compete with people's notion of what a supplement is, and then competing with the notion that you have no competition. Yeah. I'm fascinated by this.

Danny Dietz: And Ryan, you combine that with an already nascent market of longevity and a health span, which is barely becoming mainstream in the U. S. You see lots of venture funding moving into these grandiose projects to improve and increase lifespan. Combine that with the regulatory hurdles of working with something that is not a drug product. It's a remarkably complex and very fun project. One thing we did know was that when you googled spermidine, which was our core and our first flagship project, there was nothing there. So, we were able to state that as long as somebody searches it, we should be the ones that show up. We knew that was step one. From there, we knew that we needed some really highly targeted awareness campaigns. And more and more as marketing move towards thought leadership and creator content, that creator content would at least pique an interest. But it was our job to collect that interest, and to establish that awareness, and move it towards conversion. And the storyline of when somebody finally searched this ingredient on Google became the most important piece of our marketing mix. As long as somebody mentioned the ingredient, not even our brand name. Bryan and I like to say that brand only matters if it does. Nobody cares about what your brand name is if they have no context of the background, they have no context of what makes a good product versus a bad product. And they don't even know your value proposition. So, the first step was, who cares about brand? We need this ingredient to be important to people. As long as we're capturing that interest from creator campaigns, which is where we invested the majority of our marketing dollars at the early stage, and led that towards a Google search of our ingredients, we had started that marketing fund. And that's really the approach we decided to take. So, what we knew were, two very critical pillars of this, was we needed to establish the awareness in a very greenfield space with a very interesting sounding name, knowing that we can only say so much because there's health claim associations and a number of different regulatory hurdles to get through. And the second piece was once they were on Google, we needed to be the first ones to show up. And that really led us to discussing SEO as a core primary component of our marketing mix very early on in this world.

Ryan Brock: So, in the SEO world, we've talked about its search intent and how the product name that signals a very ready to buy search intent. Is that, to this day, the only real intent that you're worried about? Or are you also looking into challenges people are trying to solve, pain questions that people have? What is the scope of the intent that you're trying to reach with your SEO platform?

Bryan Jurus: It's combination of the two. Of course, branded keywords are always going to be money makers, and we're grateful to have them and definitely have a brand that contains spermidine in it, which is kind of crucial for our success. But taking that a step further, we have indications. Right? So, as you said, the indications are as important as our branded term at this point. And I wanted to go back and touch on what Danny was talking about earlier, is that it's a combination of targeted ads, especially when you're first starting out and building a brand awareness. But one of the issues that you run into if you're the first person to go to market with a product, is that there's this huge missing consumer education piece. Right?

Ryan Brock: Right.

Bryan Jurus: So, it's not like we're selling soap, for example, where someone clearly understands the benefit of why you would use soap to clean something. It's like, " Oh, okay. It's a disinfectant inaudible."

Ryan Brock: Right. Well, and if I was a marketer and I was being asked to rank for soap, I would be able to find great questions people are asking about... Do the ingredients matter? Or is organic better than not? Or should I get gel or a bar? There's so many obvious questions that the market hasn't even thought of asking yet for you.

Bryan Jurus: Yeah. Exactly. And that was kind of step one was what do you write about? And so, what we realized is that an ad has no value to you unless you're putting them on a landing page that's truly explaining what your product is. So, when we looked at how are we going to bring it to market, it's this omnichannel approach. Right? So-

Ryan Brock: Yep.

Bryan Jurus: ...Yes, SEO is important, but also video content's important. The ads-

Ryan Brock: Absolutely.

Bryan Jurus: ... Areabsolutely important. And, it's a content first strategy because if we are not educating the consumer, they're never going to see the value of the product that we're bringing to market because their friends aren't talking about it. They're not seeing it on TV in a natural sense. So, that was, again, I want to reiterate the importance of when you're establishing a market, you have to create all the content in the beginning. Now, fortunately, fast- forward to today, we've been able to-

Ryan Brock: How long ago was that? We're fast forwarding how much time?

Bryan Jurus: ...Let's see. We have been live in the U. S. For about two years. Right, Danny?

Danny Dietz: It's two years almost exactly.

Ryan Brock: A blink of an eye, yet probably so much progress has been made, I hope.

Danny Dietz: Yes.

Bryan Jurus: Yeah. When we talk about progress, though, I think it's kind of remarkable, and hats off to our team, is that to go from having nothing written, again, a clean slate website in a totally new market, to, I believe, we have over 350 blog articles as of today. So, when you kind of do the math on that, it averages out to multiple blog articles per week. And it's not... But you're going to hear us talk about this later on this podcast, is that it's not so much about creating content, but it's about creating valuable content, right, that is answering a particular question. And that's what Google's going to reward in the long term. But there was definitely a time, an awareness time that... What would you say, Danny? I mean, to go from no one ever hearing about spermidine in the U. S. to it being, starting to permeate the market probably took about six, seven months.

Danny Dietz: At the very least. But that's another important aspect of it. You mentioned time. We were looking at a Google search that yielded no useful content. We knew that at some point, given the critical and compelling nature of these scientific studies, there would be content there. So, when we initially began this project, we realized we did not have forever to sit around and let that content build. We had to... My background's in real estate. It was an empty lot at a very busy intersection. And the faster we got our hands on that land and started building that building, the more likely we were to be there in the buyer's eye when they decided that they were interested in this. And so, one of the most critical aspects was how do we build that organic content and search capacity as quickly as possible? And so we invested very heavily in building that, building on that intersection from the get- go, knowing that it would take months and months to have any yield. It was a very important capital investment for us early on.

Ryan Brock: What makes it different from the other marketing channels you're employing is that once you have that asset, it doesn't matter how people find their way to it.

Danny Dietz: Exactly.

Ryan Brock: And so, you're going to do some of the heavy lifting with your paid ads teaching people what spermidine is. But somebody else could go out there and teach them what it is now. But at the point is you're going to be there when they go looking for it. Right? That's great.

Danny Dietz: Exactly.

Christopher Day: So, as you deploy this strategy, and I love some of the things you just said by the way, like the regulatory environment. Right? There's some things that you can say and there's other things you can't say. And there's Fortune 500 companies out there that have all kinds of brands in the market that don't write anything because of" regulatory issues." But there's all kinds of things that you can write about, right, that don't make any claims that you can't make from a regulatory standpoint. So, I love that, the boldness, because it's kind of surprising actually, even very large companies are just paralyzed and do nothing versus figuring out what they can do.

Ryan Brock: Well, they've got a lawyer as their CEO of the USA division, so he's probably helping keep them straight.

Christopher Day: Super helpful.

Ryan Brock: Yeah.

Danny Dietz: Well, Toph and Ryan. We had to determine what can we become thought leaders in. And so, we realized that not only was this ingredient nascent, but the entire understanding of how nutrition impacts health span.

Ryan Brock: Yes.

Danny Dietz: We needed to become thought leaders that gave useful content within the context that met the buyer where they were at that time. And if that was discussing what are the benefits of intermittent fasting, it is relevant to our product in so much as it works to establish some metabolic processes that perhaps our product also has implications on. But these are loosely connected educational content pieces that demonstrate strategies that have been well researched to improve health span. And so, we had to take a very green space approach, not only with our ingredient name, but also with our consumer understanding. Not all of them understood in full detail the importance of some of the things that our nutritional product did.

Ryan Brock: This is what I was most interested in hearing about. Where did you arrive at those, we call them redirect topics, where we know what people are thinking about? We know if they're thinking about these things, they're likely to actually be interested in what we have to say. So, it's a matter of both, fulfilling the promise of this article that's actually going to talk about the benefits of intermittent fasting, but then also doing so in a way that makes them comfortable with your name, and your product, and all that. So, are there pain related questions like that are starting to come up as relevant keywords to target around spermidine specifically? Are people starting to ask about the benefits of it, and the formats of it, and how to use it, and blah, blah, blah?

Danny Dietz: The answer is yes. So, we've seen a remarkable uptick in traffic. We've seen competitors enter this space that are also bringing relevant content with that space too. Our ability to start to understand what the consumer cares about has become much clearer. That being said, when we began, it was not.

Ryan Brock: Yeah.

Danny Dietz: Bryan and I had had a very interesting whiteboard session where we had to sit back and realize this is working at a cellular level on health span. That is about the broadest topic you could be presented with. Right? And so, our challenge was where were the consumers? What were they reading about? What were they interested in? And so, we actually set up a very unique eight pillar strategy of trying to figure out... And we ran eight separate funnels. What content led consumers? When were they converting? At what stage were they converting? What were the indications they were most interested in? And really try and dive into who are our customers? What do they care about? And what's the highest, most efficient keywords for us to target to get there? What are those questions? That process took some time.

Christopher Day: So, you deployed a pillar strategy.

Danny Dietz: Sure.

Christopher Day: Right? Which is a newer kind of a, I call it modern marketing. At the core is ait SEO in content? Yes. But the approach is entirely different when you think about pillars. And so, how did you come to figure out what those pillars were? How did you deploy them? And then, what did you see as the results? How did it impact your business?

Bryan Jurus: This is a great question, and hats off to Danny, because we were sitting there brainstorming, and trying to understand what are the key interests, at least associated with the longevity space that we can start to build? We call them tracks internally, because if you think about it, there's also a level of marketing that goes above just a pillar content strategy. We have ad funnel that's also feeding into that pillar content strategy. We used Google, a number of Google surveys to come up with what we kind of thought was the preliminary tracks, and then we developed those into eight different tracks. And we developed content for each one of those tracks. So, when we look at what the ad strategy was, it was content driven ads. And then, from there, in terms of measurement tools, we went through and we looked at kind of proxy metrics. So, which track was getting us email addresses and how much were we paying for those email addresses? And then, what tracks were leading to conversions down the line? But it was really always based around a test and implement idea. Right? So, we wanted to test. We didn't want to spend all of our money in a particular area that we thought, " Oh, it has to work." No, we test everything. And you're going to see that kind of consistent throughout this conversation is that everything has been tested, so that when we come back and we say, " Okay. Here's our top three performing tracks. And also where should we develop more content in terms of pillar content strategy?" And we can get more into depth than that later. I'm not sure how educated the group listening here is, but again, look up pillar content. But all of this was important for us to figure out how to kind of place our resources going forward. If you look at the product development line today, it is reflective of the tracks that are working. And so, it's a full circle. We're learning... We're taking our learnings in the marketing and conversion space and directly applying that to product development, and then bringing the products that work into the market for the future. I think businesses need to be... You have to listen more than you talk. Right? So, we listen to our consumer. In fact, Danny implemented a... It's a kind of crazy strategy, and Danny said, " I want to talk to every single one of our customers that we get." And so, we are probably the only business that I'm aware of that we call every single customer that we get. We have a five to 10 minute phone call and we just want to know who they are, where they came from, if they have any questions to start to build that brand goodwill. But on top of that, that's the best piece of data that we're getting to determine what the future of product development is. And even kind of what we've pioneered in the U. S., here, is now going back to our parent company in Austria, and they're implementing our findings. And now, if you look at in terms of product development pipeline, we're much further ahead than we ever have been. It's not just a number of heads sitting around a table saying, " Okay. What's the next product we should make?" It's very clear what the next product we should make. We have direct data and we also have conversion data to back it up based upon tracks, and then also where we're ranking. Right? So, even though the consumer might demand a particular product in an area, if we own the SEO around a particular product segment, of course we're going to bring a product to market. So, I think it's synergistic in many ways that you know, can't have one without the other.

Ryan Brock: We've been talking a lot about what we're calling pillar based marketing. The pillar content strategy has been the way to refer to that particular thing of pillars, and sub pillars, and interlinking, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what you said about there being other channels above, beyond, around that, we're starting to realize that what you're saying is happening. It's so many other businesses and organizations, where if you're aligned to that page one mentality of" We need to be where our customers are," and that's the thing that drives everything else, it does start to have an impact not just on your content, not just on SEO, but on your paid strategies, and on your programmatic strategies, and on your go- to- market strategies and the whole nine yards. And, man, it's such a perfect case study in the power of aligning to your customer.

Danny Dietz: I would love the opportunity to share a little bit about what we have learned. So, we implemented these eight tracks. And we realized that a couple of these tracks are a little more general in nature. If somebody searches longevity, what do they get? What are the interesting content pieces around that? And then, also very narrow, spermidine helps up- regulate a metabolic process called autophagy. Autophagy is the ultimate step in fasting. You start fasting, your insulin response slows, you begin ketosis. Keto has become a remarkably a high search term with lots of interest, but there's another step to that. And that other step is autophagy. That's the last-

Ryan Brock: inaudible.

Danny Dietz: ... In thechain there.

Ryan Brock: Right?

Danny Dietz: Exactly.

Ryan Brock: Eating of yourself. Yeah.

Danny Dietz: And what we realized is that longevity got the most hits, but autophagy was the converting term. And so, it's a much smaller subset, but these were very high converting consumers. They wanted to know about how to up- regulate autophagy. So, we realized that instead of taking this very broad approach of how to become longevity thought leaders, we needed to narrow down on those high converting, highly interested consumers, those searching autophagy, and then start to establish and move beyond that into lookalike audiences. So, it became how do we start with our highest converting groups and then move into local likes beyond that? What are they looking at? That's the importance of these things like customer surveys. Who are these people hearing from? What do they care about beyond that? What do they expect from this? And as we began these surveys, we realized people are listening to these thought leaders. They're following these very specific groups, and they have very specific interests, very specific intentions. And we inaudible start to able to establish these lookalike audiences that allowed us to narrow in our search in there. So, not only were we establishing some level of thought leadership around a very general space, longevity, that got us emails, that got us eyeballs, but it wasn't getting us conversions. It was autophagy. It was the metabolic process itself that was getting us conversions. And that's really where we started to establish our bedrock of revenue. I mean, that was a long process. We built our building. Right? We were on page one. Great. It didn't take long. Not a surprise. There was hardly any content within the space, right, particularly around our ingredient. But the importance was how did we start to establish the importance of this ingredient within the subsets of larger search terms that people cared about? Well, what we knew was people who searched autophagy liked our product. People who searched autophagy also cared about fasting. So, we began to move a lot of our content into fasting practices, what are safe ways to practice fasting? What do you expect through fasting? Where do you read, where do you find more information on fasting? What are the different types of intermittent fasting? And that's really where we began to establish that second lookalike audience that knew what they wanted out of fasting but didn't know what it was called yet. And Toph, you had asked about results. It was a very interesting... One of the more unique situations I've had... In one month, we had a total monthly revenues, and this was early on of$ 18,000, not a very satisfying thing from a CEO. The following month we had revenues over$ 450,000. Within a 30- day period, we experienced such an influx of growth that we realized we had hit something. And so, then we began to establish even deeper lookalike audiences, helped keep that train on board and further that. And it's been remarkably successful through that process. We've seen competitors move into this space recognizing the interest, but we were prepared to accept that inbound traffic.

Christopher Day: So, that is amazing. So, from$18,000 to $450,000 in 30 days, and I'm going to probably oversimplify this, but at the core it's caring more about your audience, your target buyer, and what they feel and think and are curious about, have pain with etc., and aligning to that as a go- to- market strategy versus just, " Here's spermidine and you should buy it."

Danny Dietz: We let our customers tell us why they cared about it and why they bought it.

Christopher Day: Yeah. I love it.

Bryan Jurus: We speak their language. That's the other key.

Christopher Day: Yeah. Speak their language. inaudible.

Bryan Jurus: Speak their language.

Ryan Brock: And no amount of cleverness in a boardroom could have guessed that fasting would be the way to go. You have to test that, and you have to see what the data says. And that's the most mind- blowing part of all of this is it's just letting people tell you what they want. It's that simple.

Bryan Jurus: And the other great part that's really unique, and I think what's scary for our team is that fasting and autophagy obviously overlap, and our product falls in that same category. But when you talk with, in a boardroom full of C- level executives, it's kind of hard to pitch this idea to say, " Oh, no. We're going to position our product against something that's free." Right? Fasting is free. Fasting is not eating. But what we realize is fasting is hard.

Ryan Brock: Yes.

Bryan Jurus: And that's where spermidine has this really unique position that you can get a lot of the same benefits that you would get from fasting by taking spermidine without having to go through the hardship. Now, we're still a huge fan of fasting. You know, hear us say this all the time. We want everyone to be healthier and live the healthiest life they can. And fasting's part of that. But if that doesn't work for you, or you're looking for an alternative, then absolutely, we have a product that might fit your needs.

Christopher Day: So, Bryan, I love that. So, when you speak the language of your customer, what happens? You build digital trust. And there's been all kinds of surveys out there where consumer trust, digital trust has evaporated, and it is down in the 30s and 40% for all things digital. And in certain industries, it's even lower than that. And so, by aligning and speaking the way the customer speaks, when you're talking about things like fasting, you're building immediate digital trust. And that is an appreciating asset.

Bryan Jurus: As Danny said, we made a significant investment in customer retention, and it truly pays off. Between phone calls, providing accurate information, and then also our team sends out handwritten cards every now and then, to make sure that people know that we're human, because that is a crucial component to our brand, especially the supplement industry. And again, this is one of those really surprising statistics that no one believes us on, but it's true, is our customer retention rate is close to 80% for subscription. It's because when we do get one of those, any customer, all customers are important to us that we want to keep them. We want them to join our family. And the way that we often hear, you'll hear us talk about customers inside of the company, is like, we'll refer to someone on a first name basis because again, we treat them as humans. We want them to look at us as human. Yes, there's a digital interface in between us, but that doesn't change the way that we act or interact with people.

Christopher Day: That's amazing. 80% in B2C in the space you're in. That's amazing.

Danny Dietz: We have literally changed our product four times since gaining feedback from customers. We have a threshold. If there's a report of more than one of anything, it comes to my desk and it's reviewed by our manufacturing team. And if we believe that we agree with the consumer, we change it. And that is a remarkably challenging thing to convince a manufacturing group that the way they're doing it is not meeting customer need. But that's the importance of us speaking with every one of our customers. So, we have changed our product literally four times in 24 months to address consumer needs as soon as they arise. And I'm really proud of that fact. So...

Christopher Day: Oh, yeah. That's amazing. All right. Well, these questions are for either or both of you. We'll rock through them. Just a few high level ones before we wrap up. So, any marking myths that you used to believe that you no longer believe? So, any marking myths busted along the way of your journey?

Bryan Jurus: Technical SEO, I think, is a myth. You need to just deliver the best content and answer the right questions. Take all the BS of blog post length and word count, and all of this other stuff, and-

Ryan Brock: Keyword density.

Bryan Jurus: ...Keyword density. Yeah.

Ryan Brock: inaudible Gag me with a spoon, man. Ugh. I love you, Bryan.

Bryan Jurus: Yeah. Now, again, I do think that there are some elements of technical SEO you need to pay attention to. Do pay attention to page load speed, because that affects the user experience. So, when it comes down to user experience, pay attention to it. But if you're going to alter the quality of your content to try to make it fit more into what someone's telling you in the Google sphere of influence... No. Just make the best possible content you can and people will thank you for it, and you'll get customers in the long run.

Ryan Brock: Sometimes in this space, it's easy to feel like you don't know what you're talking about, but you're just saying what you want to believe. And so, I find myself saying very similar things to what you just said. So, whenever we have someone come on and say that, and it just makes me feel like... I don't feel like I can go Google this stuff and be edified. Right? I need to talk to people like you and other marketers who are living it every day. So, you heard it here.

Bryan Jurus: I can conclusively tell you that there's really no difference between 600 word blog article and a 2000 word blog article that was really structured. If anything, I would say it's probably the opposite. The kind of more condensed straight to the point content across multiple pages is probably going to be in your benefit, quite honestly.

Christopher Day: Danny, what keeps you up at night?

Danny Dietz: Always uncertainty. I don't believe that applies directly to this any differently than it does another business that's under management. But not knowing is the challenge. And it's not so unspecific. I mean, it's not knowing some specific things. This is a brand new marketplace. At any point, it can be full of disruption and new information. We've seen it happen multiple times, but if we continue to deliver honest information, and we continue to be entirely transparent with the process and everything that we've used to develop our products and to respond to customer inquiries, we will be wherever the customer is whenever that information arises.

Christopher Day: All right. Well, last question and we'll wrap it up. What are the top three go- to- market sales and marketing tools that you can't live without?

Bryan Jurus: Sure, I'll take it. Yeah. I live and breathe this every day. One is going to be Upwork. I think you're crazy to think if you can do everything yourself. I also want to point out, DemandJump now has a content team that you can outsource content to. So, props to you for also seeing the future on that. The second one is, and this one's for the small businesses out there, check out a site called AppSumo. They will open your ideas as to what the possibilities in terms of marketing automation or just kind of what's out there and get you started, so that you can appreciate when you do have a good tool. And third, is going to be the good tool of DemandJump. It does lead our content strategy. It is the core staple of what we're generating. And for us to create 320 blogs in a span of less than two years, you can do keyword research on your own, but it definitely helps to have a team behind you and a simple tool.

Christopher Day: Amazing. Well, all right. Thank you to everyone for listening to today's podcast. Danny and Bryan, wow. Thank you for sharing your story. It is an amazing-

Ryan Brock: Super engaging.

Christopher Day: ...Product. Spermidine's an amazing product and what has gone behind that, and then building that digital trust with your customers, the bridges you've built, speaking their language. I love it. That is true modern marketing right there on display. So, with that, until next time, on Page One Or Bust. Thank you very much.

Ryan Brock: Thanks everybody.

Bryan Jurus: Thank you. Really appreciate it.

Danny Dietz: Thank you for having us.

Speaker 1: Page One Or Bust is brought to you by DemandJump. Know the exact content to create to increase first page rankings and drive outcomes with DemandJump. Get started for free today at demandjump. com.